Laws of the Jungle: Dating for Women Over 40 co-authors Gloria MacDonald and Thelma Beam interviewed midlife women and asked how they knew they wanted to have sex with a specific man. Filtering through the answers, they came up with some commonalities for the women’s description of chemistry, a term that seems elusive.
The components of chemistry for women boiled down to four things:
- Liking and respecting the man; his self-confidence and presentation; kindness, generosity, protectiveness, chivalry and other positive traits; acceptability in terms of status, income, personality, etc.
- The possibility that the relationship will continue; that some potential exists to make it permanent; that this man could be a suitable life partner for them and they can visualize what their future would be like.
- The man is willing to invest in her emotionally and materially, shown by cuddling, talking, kindness, acts of service, love talk, generally taking an interest in things that make her happy, gift-giving, paying for outings, having an adequate income. She could envision him willing to commit to a monogamous relationship; that his affections are not otherwise engaged by a former wife/girlfriend or current love interest.
- That there is at least some physical attraction on both sides, or at least that there are no physical turn-offs.
Contrast that with what they learned from single midlife men about what they need to have sex with a woman:
- He finds her physically attractive.
- She is willing.
Women report that without many or all of the 4 criteria, sex is unfulfilling and pointless.
But you can see that women and men approach sex from different places. Only after having sex with a woman will many men decide whether to further invest in the relationship. They will expend time, energy, attention and money to get sex, and women misinterpret this as an investment in the relationship. Men would start a relationship with sex, for women sex is the point at which many other criteria have been met.
Before any male bashing and name calling, hold on. MacDonald and Beam explain the differences logically based on human evolution and it makes sense. From back to cave people’s time, women are wired to want to make sure a man will stick around if she has his children. And men are wired that this isn’t that important. Yes, modern men and women have evolved socially, intellectually, and emotionally. Yet, the authors argue, there are still some remnants of that old thinking that is just hard wired for both sexes.
What do you think of their findings? Do you agree with the four criteria they listed? Or do you have different criteria?
Technorati Tags: dating Internet, dating online, senior dating, bbw dating, mature dating, dating over 50, dating over 40, online dating advice, dating after 40, dating after 50, over 40 dating, 40+ dating, dating after forty
Got a topic on dating after 40 you want Dating Goddess to address? Send your issue to Goddess@DatingGoddess.com.
Comments
14 responses to “What women need from a man before having sex”
Seems to me like what midlife men and women want is no different from what younger men and women want.
hello adventure,
just droped by to check out the latest entry in your blog…
hope allis well.
peace.
They hit the nail on the head for me! Based on my dating experiences in the past 10 years, the guys are looking to score and the sooner the better, while most of the mid-life women I know, are looking for a “relationship” as demonstrated by the 4 criteria before they jump into the sexual arena. This is not from a sense of prudishness, but because the meaningless sex just isn’t fulfilling.
My other observation from experience is that 10 years ago a guy was much more willing to invest some time in the relationship before pressing for a physical relationship. Today it seems like if you don’t put out by the third date, there is something “wrong” with you, and you get dumped. I actually had one guy try to turn our initial meeting into two “dates” so that after the next one he could start pushing the “3 date rule”. When I wouldn’t sleep with him on date number 3 his 4, I got a nasty email saying I must have been “hurt by bad men because he just wants to have fun and there is obviously something wrong with me…” Sad thing is he was a football coach at a catholic high school, so he continues to teach young men that this is an appropriate way to treat women….
So how do we resolve this catch-22? Is there anything inherently wrong with the differences between what men and women want?
I have tried the up front approach, saying “I understand that most men are looking for a physical relationship early in the relationship, and here is what I need to be comforatable getting intimate.” We then talked about spending time together and other ways to get to know each other. My experiment didn’t work… he went pouf.
So now I am in the position of being really clear on what I want and need, being confident enough to communicate it to a prospective partner, but not finding anyone willing to put in a little effort. My current plan is to hold out until I meet a guy that will play by my not to difficult rules. Am I being too much of a princess here?
Well, that is all very nice and all, but I don’t mind having some good hard sex myself, once in a while. I know a guy might not be marriage, but if he looks good and looks like he would be good in bed, I’m not going to pass it up once in a while. And yes, I am 44 and am about to get divorced from a man who has been a lazy lover and has premature ejaculation and then blames it on me. So I may be a bit tainted in my info because I’m ready for a good romp in the bed after 12 years of being with this man.
So I guess it all depends on where you’re coming from.
The following are my thoughts from the last 2 blogs, so please bear with.
Hmm, I realize that I’m probably a screwball statistic for the guys side of things but at this point in my life (49 years young), while being sexually active is great, what I’m really wanting anymore is a, and now all the hokey terms come to mind so I’ll edit to just this, partner/soulmate/someone who I can actually BE with and not have to ‘change to meet their ideals’.
I was going to ‘rant’ a bit more but you probably really don’t need to hear that *small smile* so I’ll just say that some of my friends, both younger and older, are all for only spending enough time to know a women to get them in bed, so I can completely understand where this book gets it’s focus from, all too many men (and some women) are out there to only ‘play the field. Though curious thought does strike, did the book have any stat’s/numbers as far as this train of thought?
Just a thought, or start of series of thoughts from one guy out here.
I TRY TO WATCH MY Ps & Qs & DON’T TRY TO BE PUSHY OR TOUCHY, I WAS DROPPED ON MANY DATES BECAUSE (HE WAS TO MUCH OF A GENTLEMAN!!) WHAT DO I GET FOR BEING A GENTLEMAN, DON’T YOU LIKE ME, YOU HAVEN’T MADE ANY MOVES ON ME, YOU HAVEN’T TRIED TO KISS ME, YOU HAVE NOT TRIED TO GET ME IN BED YET, ARE YOU GAY OR WHAT!
YOU SAY YOU DON’T WANT PUSHY BUT UPSET WHEN IT DOESN’T HAPPEN.
I HAVE TO LAUGH AT THE COMMENTS, I BET ALL OF YOU ARE DISAPPOINTED IF THE MAN DOESN’T MAKE A MOVE ON YOU OR SAY & THINK THE SAME THINGS.
YOU WOMEN ARE NOT IN TOUCH WITH YOU FEELINGS, I THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE GOOD AT. YOUR NOT LISTENING TO YOUR INNER CHILD OR YOU DON’T WANT TO. PAULY
I have many thoughts on this topic and hopefully will compile and compose them at some time for consumption (umm). Here are some.
On an important note.
What women and men say may reflect more on their own awareness of their motivations than actuality.
Men’s quick and gut reactions ARE as they say-
A woman should be attractive and willing-
But they too may have other desires and qualifications especially as they mature.
Importantly for midlife daters- (and others)
A woman and a man may want to know that the prospective partner is STD free –
and to determine that and whether to trust your partner may take time.
Women may have better impulse control and so choose to take more time to ‘investigate’.
Women may be concerned with attractiveness and certainkly also need to test a man’s ‘willingness’ and want sex as much as men, but understand the implications of ACTING too quickly on this.
Yes, much may be the same for a younger woman, or younger and older men. And Age may not be as relevant as objective and experience with dating and relationship building.
Objectives change over the course of one’s life.
Many women DO want sex and not necessarily ‘committed’ or ‘exclusive’ relationships, especially when working on their careers or coming out of a divorce or sexless/loveless marriage.
Many women may be judged more harshly for admitting this or acting on this. It is more acceptable if in a ‘relationship’.
Being open to sex, does not mean not ALSO wanting affection, caring or consideration- attention.
This also goes for men.
Defining commitment is important. One can be ‘commited’ to an ongoing relationship and yet not present in the moments you are sharing with a partner.
Ability to be committed and attentive in the moment, whether it is one date or more, may be more important for a woman in determining if she wishes to have sex.
Many maturer men and women may find that disconnected, inattentive, slam-bang, eyes tight shut sex becomes more and more unfufilling and unmeaningful over time.
Ones perception of ‘boredom’ may have as much to do with the openess and creativity in one’s own mind as to do with the behavior of another.
Women may wish to test the prospective creativity of the mind of the man she may choose to have sex with,m to assess the quality of the sex they might have together.
A wise and maturer man may choose to do the same even if he feels that immediate tug of chemistry.
Again much depends on objectives, stage of life, skill set and esxperience.
Alison
This piece is not even an oversimplification. It’s just generalizing. It’s female sexual tunnel vision, a condition that causes women to view only the males they find attractive as “men.” The rest of us, regardless of our conduct or motivation, simply don’t count. So Pauly, don’t worry about being pidgeonholed; you don’t fit the definition of being a man any more than I do. This article doesn’t apply to us.
I agree with The Highballer. Women have their tunnel visions. Sex is a language for women to express thir emotions and for that emotional meeting they need their men to be up to that. A woman once told me that they “size up” a man the moment she meets him. It really does not matter what or how the man acts. THEY know all. So, if she finds you emotionally correct, she will take all initiatives. If not, nothing of whatever you do is likely to change her attitude. At most you might be pushed into the dreaded “friend zone”.
Cosmos
I have an even more primal take on the man/woman dynamic. Have you ever had a pet reptile? They will not food that doesn’t run away. Men are like that. (I like men but they are like this; even the great ones.) If you run, they hunt. They can’t help it. If you chase them, they run away. They can’t help it. This is how the term hard-to-get came about but it can be played simply with confidence instead of as a game. If he isn’t chasing you, don’t chase him. Leave. That way you give him a chance to hunt. And if he isn’t making any effort to catch you, you probably don’t need him anyway.
I think that confidence could have a lot to do with the different takes women have in their 20s and 40s on dating.
Dear not25.com,
You have pointed out a very important feature of a woman. But in the end, your suggestions seem a bit contradictory or am I missing something? I would appreciate if you say more.
Well…wow…I have to say that I think women should check out all dating options, have lots of fun…but no matter what…bottom line is being treating very, very well regardless of what direction the relationship takes. And I think women are HUGELY concerned with attractiveness…i’m talking about the subjective kind…it may be deeply linked to all the ‘cognitive’ needs…after all attraction is say 50% the mind and 50% the body…chemicals and all. I think there’s too much focus on commitment…long term potential can be a bit destructive…have fun…and when a longterm dude shows up have more fun.
to Pauly,
Try dating women that are not as sexy. They haven’t been hurt, runover, used, etc……
[…] lessons we’ve learned about jumping in the sack too soon. I shared what I reported in “What women need from a man before having sex” — that women need to have an emotional connection to make the physical part […]