I mean this literally — not are you internally talking yourself out of going on a date.
For example, recently I had two conversations with a new guy. About 30 minutes into the second conversation, I said I needed to get back to work. He asked if I’d like to get together. I said, “Sure, we could meet for coffee. What part of town do you live in?”
He responded that he lived near an upscale shopping center that I like to frequent.
“Great. We could meet there.”
He then launched into a 10-minute rant about how he wasn’t into expensive dinners, he rarely went to nice restaurants, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam.
I had suggested coffee, not dinner, and the more he talked and repeated himself, the less I wanted to meet him.
Finally, I repeated that I needed to go. He said he’d like to meet me but he would leave it to me to contact him if I wanted to get together. I politely said okay and hung up.
It was not only his assuming I was after an expensive dinner when I’d clearly stated coffee, but his repetition was irritating. Then there was the fact that I do like nice dinners once in a while and I knew I wouldn’t really be happy with someone who was allergic to white tablecloths.
I’m sure I have talked myself out of dates as well. The challenge is we have no idea what we said that was off-putting to the other.
Some say email and phone filtering is effective as it reveals mis-matched characteristics quickly without going to the trouble of actually meeting. But part of me wonders if we aren’t limiting our choices by judging someone on a sliver of information. On the other hand, these conversations often telegraph values and preferences enough that you know you are too different to be a match.
Have you been interested in someone until they talked too much? Have you felt someone’s interest wane as you talked on the phone? Do you think weeding someone out over the phone is effective, or do you give them the benefit of the doubt and meet anyway?
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Learn more of what to look for before agreeing to meet someone by ordering your copy of Check Him Out Before Going Out: Head Off Dud Dates.
Comments
32 responses to “Are you talking yourself out of potential dates?”
I tend to inadvertently overshare during long phone convos, so I prefer not to talk on the phone for more than 10 minutes at a time for several times before meeting in person. I think people sometimes get nervous on the phone and just say too much. As for this particular guy, let him go. He should be asking you out–not telling you to call him if you want to spend time together.
Each situation is different. If the phone convo goes well and we both want to meet, then that’s the next step. If the phone doesn’t go well, I’m delighted to find out right then rather than meet. I would not want to meet that DG’s phone guy, either. He wasn’t even trying, he was definately talking himself out of dating, that’s for sure…
I was chatting on the phone for the first time with someone when he mentioned that he had been at his company for 30 years or something… I said, “you’re an old timer, then.” It’s a common phrase used in my work-world for someone who’s been at a company for a very long time. It doesnt mean anything derogatory, and it never occured to me that it could or would offend. He sounded annoyed or offended when he replied, “I’m not old” and the conversation quickly went south. I could tell he decided he didnt want to meet me. My intention was as a friendly and innocent as could be.. it’s OK. We weren’t a match. Sometimes it goes wrong just that fast. He hadn’t been back on the dating circuit very long and reacted to my comment rather freakishly, IMO. 🙂
I know I’ve posted before about the two different guys who right away started using me as a sounding board for their current frustrations in their lives. I was really annoyed and wanted to hang up. I’m sure I cut those conversations short. I do give people the benefit of the doubt a lot when dating, it’s necessary – but not when it’s something blatently annoying.
I met a fellow like this at a blind date set up by a dating service. He was cute and low-key, although he seemed kind of nervous. But I thought he was very attractive in a nerdy way. At the end of the date, we talked about getting together again, so I thought, oh that’s great!
Later, however, he sent me a couple emails, but they were of the “I can’t believe you liked me!” variety which seemed oddly childish. Also, I’d given him my phone number, so why didn’t he call instead of email?
I was waiting for him to ask me for the 2nd date–I always figure it’s the guy’s responsibility, especially if the first date was some arranged thing like ours was. He’s got to show some actual interest, IMO–I’m not going to do all the chasing–especially with a guy I don’t even know!
After a couple weeks (way too long!) he sort of kind of asked me “out” (still via email–he never called), but it was one of those oh-so-casual situations where we were going to meet in the afternoon to walk through the local park in a let’s get some exercise together sort of way & not something you could say was really a “date” date.
What happened after that was really even odder–he sent several emails that were all “I can tell that you’re not really into this–you’re not, are you?” and “I can’t see why you’d be interested in me” so on. At first I was “why, yes, I am really looking forward to getting together, you seem very nice & etc” but after the 2nd email like this I finally had had enough and emailed back “yes, you’re right, let’s totally not bother”.
I assumed he’d either met someone else or maybe was clinically depressed or something–I basically decided to believe his own words/actions and concluded that he wasn’t all that into a relationship with me. The weirdest thing is, he kept right on emailing me for several weeks after I’d told him the above, as if I would still be interested somehow! I thought, Dude, you so totally blew it, don’t you know?
I am aware of talking myself out of dates…….it is usually after a reference to my children. Now I definitely don’t spend the whole conversation talking about them (not guilty of that) but do want to let any potential guy know that as a single mother raising teens I do put them first always. I don’t make it too formal, just a casual mention about kids whereby I slip this is. Sometimes its that I will say sorry can’t meet such a day or evening due to school work, soccer practice etc. Part of me thinks this is too soon to mention that but the other part of me says why even bother going out for coffee or dinner if the guy is going to run a mile when he hears that I am a fully involved Mom who puts her kids first until they are in college? But yes, I can practically hear some guys running for the hills and the phone conversation goes downhill rapidly 🙂 So in that respect I am the one talking myself out of a date. In my opinion, this is another peeve of mine against online dating. We all of us have to screen each other via email and phone. If you meet someone in real life, the chemistry might be so enticing that these other type of “things” would be overlooked. In other words, get to know me first before deciding you cannot deal with teenagers. Likewise, I might get to know a guy first and be attrracted to him before deciding from a profile and brief phone conversation that he would not be a match. And as Samantha noted above, if her phone partner had seen her smile when she mentioned being an old timer, he might not have been irritated.
DG, I meant to say that yes, I think meeting someone even for a quick coffee and giving them the benefit of the doubt is best. Phone conversations can be misleading. No visual, no body language. At least a coffee meeting can be quick and yet more effective to see if there is any chemistry.
“. And as Samantha noted above, if her phone partner had seen her smile when she mentioned being an old timer, he might not have been irritated”
I felt bad for making him feel bad, too. But since we both knew we were the same age and I made the comment right after he said he’d been with his company 30 years, I assumed it was obvious what I meant. You never know that you’re about to step on someone’s land mine. He ended the conversation quickly.
DG, I think your fella was just a really broke dude.
Where the hell do you find these guys…at a star trek convention?
Maybe he thought you were going to order one of the $23.00 Starbucks Grande Mocha-something-achino-latte swirly whip cream drinks.
Starbucks needs to be stopped folks!
I usually skip the phone call and simply ask via email if she wants to meet for coffee. I’d rather talk face to face. In fact, if a woman hems and haws too long in email, I’d rather forget about it. I don’t see any point in sending a lot of email back and forth and doing much talking on the phone when there may be zero chemistry when we finally meet. So let’s have coffee and spend some time talking and get to know one another.
That said, yes, people talk themselves out of potential relationships. I had the woman who told me over coffee she wanted to do a lot of traveling, as in drive all over the country for months. I don’t have time for that. I could see that relationship had no future.
Yes, Mike, I think you’re right — he’s broke! And no, I don’t frequent Star Trek conventions! And I don’t even drink coffee, so no $23 Starbucks drink for me.
CrazyGirl: I’m with you! I’d let him go as soon as we hung up. He called the next day, which I thought was odd since he seemed clear that the ball was in my court. Then he called again last night and left a rambling voice mail that if I was really interested in getting together I’d call him back. He’s right — and I won’t be calling him.
Mark -“I usually skip the phone call and simply ask via email if she wants to meet for coffee. I’d rather talk face to face. In fact, if a woman hems and haws too long in email, I’d rather forget about it. I don’t see any point in sending a lot of email back and forth and doing much talking on the phone when there may be zero chemistry when we finally meet. So let’s have coffee and spend some time talking and get to know one another”
I agree 100%. I loved it when the guy asked immediately if we could meet for coffee. A phone call is OK, too, but I liked it when he demonstrated he was just ready to meet. You can have that fun conversation in person instead of over the phone. You might even just hit it off as friends and that’s OK. It’s a fun experience.
I know most men on dating sites are looking for that romantic connection and need to see me in order to know if he wants more. I dont want to set myself up for rejection with flirty/chatty phone calls before hand. It’s easy to start fantasizing and imagining if you stay with the phone thing too long. It makes the disappointment upon meeting hit much harder.
I think the guy sounded like he was cheap if he meant what he said about expensive dinners. Clearly, that and him asking you to call instead of making the plans himself showed lack of effort on his part. Even if he wasn’t into expensive dinners, that wasn’t something he should have shared that soon. You don’t have to always eat expensive either but he sounded like he didn’t want to spend $ for a date.
Looking back to the guys I’ve dated, I ignored some red flags that guys gave more so than me probably talking myself out of a date. I didn’t want to see some serious flaws in some of these men because I wanted to believe their circumstances would change – or at least they wanted to change their circumstances. I was wrong on several of them.
I agree that his remarks about expensive dinners were out of line. Even if he couldn’t afford those, he didn’t need to bring that up in a telephone conversation.
That said, I’ve had the opposite happen. I was chatting online with a woman once (I don’t like chatting but she wanted to) and she made it clear to me that she liked to be taken out to expensive restaurants. She had champagne tastes and I don’t have a champagne budget, so that was a no go.
So maybe it’s not altogether wrong to bring it up, but from the way DG described it, he wasn’t very graceful about it. If DG wants a relationship that includes expensive restaurants now and then and this person couldn’t afford that, I guess it’s better to get that out front early on.
I think you can have a nice dinner without it being expensive. I think most women like a nice dinner out once in a while, but if they only have champagne tastes, then they need to find a guy with a champagne budget. My experience with this has always been a let-down, and I am not into steak or lobster so I don’t want or expect that kind of dinner out. But, I do expect a guy I’m seeing to take me out, even if it’s a fast-food place on a semi-regular basis. The last 2 guys I dated steadily had “money issues”. One made a much larger salary than I did but quit spending $ on me once he anticipated some legal bills (which had nothing to do with me and would not have curtailed eating out occasionally). He quit making any effort. The guy I was seeing the last time seemed to have money for booze but got so he seldom wanted to take me out unless it was Valentine’s Day. Otherwise, he didn’t want to spend any $ on me either. So, while I never have been a gold-digger, I have certainly got the shaft when it came to guys and their spending habits. I always felt jilted by their behavior. No woman wants to hang out at a guy’s house watching movies every time for a date. Most men can do better than that once in a while.
As Mitsy so rightly points out, whether its an expensive restaurant or the movies or a greasy-spoon diner, the fact that a guy cares enough to make the arrangements and is considerate to the woman’s needs, is far more important than the cost of the food. It seems to me that many men are looking at women as potential gold diggers, and to be fair there most likely are enough gold diggers out there to ruin it for the majority of women who are not like that. DG’s potential date probably quickly, and incorrectly, translated her preferance for the upscale shopping center as a meeting place and within two seconds had her pegged as a “gold digger” and so rambled on about not liking expensive restaurants. But that does not mean we women have to pretend to like greasy-spoon diners just to put men at their ease and convince them we are not after their wallets. Plus, if he had paid true attention he would have seen that DG’s career and situation in life does not suit the picture of the classic gold digger.
If a gold digger can find some gold on me, I’d like to see it to.
I think DG’s guy was probably just a bit down on his luck and didn’t have much money, or else was so cheap he wanted it known from the beginning he wasn’t going to pay for a lot of stuff.
I bet a lot of guys are like me. We expect to pay for the dates and don’t mind paying, but we don’t want to run up a big bill. I like taking a woman out to a nice restaurant for some interesting food, but there are plenty of moderately priced places where I live. Really, it’s not hard to have dinner for two at an ethnic restaurant and keep it under $30 if no one orders drinks, or under $50 with a drink or two.
Pro tip: Figure out where the college kids hang out. There will be interesting places to eat for cheap there. And frankly, that’s also where a lot of the interesting things will be happening — fun bands playing in bars, open mikes, etc.
I’m dating a guy now who doesn’t like to spend money. At first, I was offended because I read his frequent “let’s go to your place and cook dinner” as not respecting me or as not being serious about wanting a relationship with me. But we talked it over and actually now it’s A-OK with me.
We’re both trying to save $ in this economy and, frankly, I do prefer cooking at home to spending $300/wk at restaurants (we get together for dinner about twice a week and I’m the kind of woman who insists on paying half after the 3rd or 4th date). He doesn’t know how to cook and I actually like cooking. And he isn’t a deadbeat–many times he brings 1-2 bottles of good wine to dinner, or really expensive steaks for us to grill. And I have to say–snuggling in front of the fire at home after dinner sure beats hanging out in some bar! He also insists on taking me out for special occasions. Perfect!
I’ve also dated me in the past who were really cheap, though, in a distasteful way. Two men “forgot” their wallets *after* we had gone to an expensive restaurant that he chose! Once could be a mistake, but twice? That’s a dealbreaker “red flag” in my book.
The other thing to watch out for—men who complain incessantly (& early on when you barely know them!) about their ex-wives’ excessive spending are way bad news. In my experience these men are themselves overspenders (odd, eh?) and also very controlling.
I have a third date tonight with a guy that seems really nice. He has certainly made a big effort to make the arrangements so far, and third time he has chosen a restaurant much closer to me than to him because he knows I have kids at home. So far I am impressed although when I looked online this morning at the restaurant and realised that on a Wednesday, after the school run and work, I now have to rush home to get the glad rags on for such a nice upscale restaurnt, I am like O Lord what do I wear???? Ah, you can never please us women 🙂
I personally would be much more impressed with a man who chose an interesting restaurant rather than an expensive one. Anyone can find an upscale restaurant in any city, it takes time and effort to find cool ethnic food or something really different. It would be especially impressive to me if I had mentioned liking some kind of food and they later suggest something in that genre. It doesn’t cost money to pay attention!
In the online dating world I find phone conversations very telling. It seems that the longer I have them on the phone the more unusual and revealing the conversations. I have had a man lie about speaking a second language (which turns out to be my second language, he later changed this on his profile ha ha) and another who assured me in our initial conversation that I could trust him and he would never hurt me (did I mention I was concerned about that? um, no!) as well as some “compulsive callers” who called repeatedly even though I had indicated I was busy that evening… I definitely make sure I talk on the phone a few times with prospective dates before I agree to meet!!
“We’re both trying to save $ in this economy and, frankly, I do prefer cooking at home to spending $300/wk at restaurants (we get together for dinner about twice a week and I’m the kind of woman who insists on paying half after the 3rd or 4th date). He doesn’t know how to cook and I actually like cooking. And he isn’t a deadbeat–many times he brings 1-2 bottles of good wine to dinner, or really expensive steaks for us to grill. And I have to say–snuggling in front of the fire at home after dinner sure beats hanging out in some bar! He also insists on taking me out for special occasions. Perfect!”
Karen, that does sound perfect. 🙂
I think when two reasonable people get together, good things can happen and it doesn’t have to cost much.
I’m dating a great woman now and she’s had me over several times and made me dinner and she’s a fabulous cook. All I brought was myself and movie.
We’ve also had a few nights out and I’ve paid for those, though she has insisted on paying for the tip.
We’ve managed to date and not spend much, yet we’ve still been to the art museum, heard great live music, enjoyed poetry and song at open mike nights, and enjoyed good movies on DVD together. I got concert tickets for Saturday night and we have a list of things we want to do together.
She and I can have a nice time together eating PBJs in the car parked near a river, listening to the car radio and talking. I am not making this up. We’re both happy with simple.
It really is about couples being comfortable together, whether its eating PBJ sandwiches in the car together, as Mark pointed out, or both enjoying nice restaurants once in a while. Personally speaking, I grew up in a 1970’s recession and had to struggle for years financially while educating myself and working hard to get a well paid salary. I have experienced living in a squat, eating cheap sausages and beans for weeks on end and once, while stranded without money in Italy, lived on bar nuts for five days. My friends and I would walk past lovely restaurants and gaze in longingly before walking back to the squat in the rain. I know these were extreme experiences but they were real. This previous lifestyle had its affect on me and at this stage in my life, I like to have the choice to spend a little money if I want to and to have a guy spend a little money on me too, if he wants to. It does not however affect how I feel about someone, I look to other qualities to determine suitability. It does depend on our backgrounds, our values and the bigger picture of finding someone with similar values.
“I’ve also dated me in the past who were really cheap, though, in a distasteful way. Two men “forgot” their wallets *after* we had gone to an expensive restaurant that he chose! Once could be a mistake, but twice? That’s a dealbreaker “red flag” in my book.”
Karen, I have to ask..what DID you do in those instances? Pay up? I think I could probably let the guy hang there and simply say I don’t have the cash and left my credit card at home. Turn the tables on him. Sounds like a louse of a guy.
Mitsy: In both cases I paid up every time. But I really made a strong mental note of what these guys did. And yes, these events did contribute to the reasons why I eventually (and fairly quickly) dumped both of them.
I think “forgetting your wallet” reveals a basic lack of responsibility & respect for me and any other friends we were with. Of course, if it was an actual accident, that would have been different! But then they would have tried to pay me back later. Both guys didn’t even try (very forgetful, these guys were). They both displayed other jerk behavior as well, so I finally decided it all added up and that I was better off staying far away from them.
Sometimes I honestly wonder, I’ve read books and coached a few people myself and sometimes I don’t get men. Sometimes a date is meant to be light and fun, and setting up all these rules beforehand makes it sound like some kind of prenuptial. Why can’t people just have fun and relax…and last of all…listening, do people not listen for clues anymore?
I can tell you, Vincent, it’s guys who “leave their wallets at home” on a date that make RULES necessary for women because otherwise they get walked on. For some reason, that kind of torks off women. Perhaps, just maybe it’s because people BEHAVE badly and rules or deal-breakers are necessary in order to not be taken advantage of.
I am sure Karen’s date was light and fun until the guy “forgot his wallet” and left her to pay the entire bill herself. Not fun. Society is made up of rules, sometimes referred to as laws if applicable whether we like it or not. As long as we all abide by the rules, we can then have fun.
I just won’t do cover for him. “Not gonna do it.” Going by the tone of these “forgot his wallet” posts, I now assume the guy, or guys must have invited them and then didn’t really forget their wallets, or had a disrespectful attitude and expected them to pay. An honest mistake or oversight is OK with me, but seems the ladies dont feel that’s how it went…. If I found myself in a situation like that, I would push it back on him and say I dont have a wallet either, and I’d leave.
My post above is referring to a first time meeting. Yes, I would be a real witch. If he really had money and just wanted to be disrespectful I’d get on my broom and fly away.
Well, I met one guy I liked……turns out he was looking for a woman every 2nd weekend only as he had a child with cerebral palsy and autism, who was in a special home, and a very jealous 16 year old daughter living with him……I had to hear how she broke up a relationship he had with a woman that went on for a year, he also kept this woman a secret from his daughter as every 2nd weekend the daughter went to the mother. He never invited me out for a movie, or just a light coffee and sandwich, on our so called 2nd date wanted to come to my place with a bottle of wine to give me a back massage!!!! that is clearly a man who does not know how to “date” a woman, and I think he was just in it for sex and who he could get it from……..when he again smsed me with a back massage proposal….I told him I was seeing other men on the site…he backed off.
Another guy wanted to meet with me “quickly” as I have no children and he is sick of women with kids. He was not even out of his current relationship with a woman he had being seeing for 2 years…but could not handle her boy child, I had come down very bad with flu and a strep throat and could hardly swallow….but he insisted we must meet. Upon meeting….I have yet to meet another man with such an over inflated ego……his money, his businesses…..we sat for 2 and a half hours in a draft as he was getting hot, talking about “Him”, when he eventually offered that we should have a light snack….I told him I am really not feeling well, and excused myself and went home. I then got an sms with a sniding remark that it must have been “such a strain for me to sit in his company”….an yes it was….I must admit, he also did not even ask me my name……..I am Jen (nickame), but I know his name and surname……if it is real of course. There are some great guys out there I know, it’s just to find the one that clicks with me. I’m not so sure of internet dating…..as I went on in 2007, for a month on and off, again once in 2008 for 2 months and now again in 2009 for a month…..and the same old faces are there…checking in everyday….one guy I wrote to has been on the site for 10 years now and still can’t find a woman……somewhere something is wrong. I prefer the good old fashioned boy meets girl…sparks or attraction, what you see is what you get… and you take it from there….no expectations. No photograph of a younger person, or airbrushed photos which is what you get on sites. Why do we seem to struggle these days to actually meet elegible people……our grandparents and parents did just fine……..what is happening to our over 40 generation???? are the mens expectations too high, are woman expecting too much from a man……like love and committment, do men just want easy sex and see which woman they eventually get a feeling for??? Do any men out there have an answer from a guys point of view…please share how you feel about women. A lot of men have actually told me that there are 2 things that rule a man….1. His Ego and 2. Sex…nothing more………
We had some mutual friends. He was perfect, a prince, I married him.
He fooled me. . . Apparently our friends were fooled too.
He hid alcoholism, gambling, I was his meal ticket.
After alienating me from friends and family the verbal abuse began.
Turns out he was the prince of darkness.
Now I’m an Ozzy Osbourne fan but the music and TV show only.
Dating and trust hmmm
A friends mother told me to go on a lot of 1st dates LOL.
Just divorced.
Jen: “are woman expecting too much from a man……like love and committment, do men just want easy sex and see which woman they eventually get a feeling for???”
I’m looking for the entire package. Although, if she can’t cook, that is not a deal breaker for me 😉 However, I must admit that sex is an issue. While it may be a virtue to wait until marriage, the irreconcilable differences in sexual desires is what caused problems in my marriage. Being over 40, I want the next lady to be the one for the rest of my life, and that means ensuring compatibility in the area of sex.
“Do any men out there have an answer from a guys point of view…please share how you feel about women. A lot of men have actually told me that there are 2 things that rule a man….1. His Ego and 2. Sex…nothing more………”
I can’t say much about ego. I enjoy what I do what I do, and I do what needs to be done at home. After that, it is time to kick back and enjoy life. Assuming that you enjoy each other’s company, it could come down to ego and sex. But then, you have presumed the other 90% of the relationship.
Ego and sex doesn’t make a relationship. But, ego and sex can break a relationship. At least sex can for me.
True Richard,
Ego can be a very big deal breaker depending on the guy.
A man needs to feel like the man in the relationship. In today’s time where women are the percentage of people in college and the workforce many women have the attitude that I don’t need a man for anything and then go into relationships with that attitude and wonder why it doesn’t work out. Men need to feel like they are needed.
Sex is major. If we are not compatible sexually, we will be having the “I need to focus more on my bridge playing” talk!!!
I met a guy on the dating site. He spent about a month e.mailing me every day about his work, wanting to kill his staff and at first this sounded so cute, but then he sent me an e.mail stating that he had gone on a date with another woman from the dating site and apparently she accused him of spiking her drink and raping her. He did take her to his house to “fill her up with coffee” as he claims she was “So drunk” and he never had sex with her……I gasped when I read the mail as this man whom I had just seen a picture of and never met was so open and transparent before we met. Then when we finally met, I had to hear that he had gone for blood tests to check that he has no STD’s or Aids, and then asked me on our 1st date to go away the weekend with him tostay over at a friends house, which was not far………this spooked me as he wanted intimacy too fast too quick, and he had this dark side of date rape and date rape drugs which kept popping up in our conversation………..I luckily ran from the idiot as there was something very weird about this man. I now believe he has finally found a young woman (probably very stupid) and they are an item. He is fifties and she twenties. UGH!! Always follow your gut about a person,don’t like I did try and give him the benefit of the doubt…….at the end of the day I ran for the hills as I realised he was very weird.