Adventures in Delicious Dating After 40™

Category: Are you ready for Mr. Great?

  • Why listening is so seductive

    ListeningThe man I started seeing a few weeks ago told me about a woman in a weekly group activity he attends who has become enamored with him and it makes him uncomfortable. When I asked what makes it uncomfortable he said, “I’m not at all attracted to her. She’s too effusive. She is always telling the others how I’m the first man in her life who has really listened to her.”

    I realized that this skill is somewhat rare. People — even good friends — can go through the motions of listening. They do the right things: eye contact, head nodding, saying “uh huh,” “I see,” “yes.” But this phrase describes them best: “The porch light is on, but nobody’s home.”

    They aren’t truly listening. How do you know? Because they ask you something a few minutes later that you’ve already stated. They were going through the motions to appear the attentive listener. But they weren’t really present. Perhaps they were thinking of a good story to tell you about what you just said, or a question to ask you, or heaven forbid, what they want for dinner.

    But this guy is a good listener. He does all the signals that show he’s listening. He makes relevant comments or asks related questions. He may throw in his own stories, but it’s a give and take. I never feel he’s hogging the conversation or ignoring me.

    And he remembers! For the next day, several days or even over a week. This is an anomaly in my experience. My ex could barely remember what I said once I was finished, and rarely the next day. And I’m not one of those non-stop talkers who prattle on. I’m very conscious of only sharing what I think would be of interest to the other, and then as truncated as I can be without the details unless he probes.

    Tom PetersListening well can be alluring. But how you listen says a lot about you and the importance you place on the speaker. I can be a lousy listener if I don’t respect the speaker. Tom Peters said, “The highest compliment you can pay a customer is to listen.” This applies to someone you’re dating as well.

    In communication workshops I lead I say, “If you change your listening, you change your relationships.” If you start listening to someone who you’ve previously half listened to, it will shift how they experience you. I can nearly guarantee it will be for the better.

    So are you a good listener to your dates? How do you make sure you listen well, even with the distractions of loud restaurants or bars or even Starbucks blending beverages?

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  • Understanding the stage your guy is in

    Keys to the KingdomReview of Keys to the Kingdom by Alison Armstrong

    Ms. Armstrong began her study of what makes men tick in 1991 and her staff gives “Celebrating Men, Satisfying Women®” workshops around the country. Her focus is on creating peace and partnership between men and women.

    She shares some of her findings in her novel, Keys to the Kingdom. The novel format makes the information easy to digest. In fact, you don’t really mind that she repeats the same information in different words because one character is telling someone new. It’s a non-annoying way to review the concepts.

    What are those concepts? She focuses on the stages of men’s development from birth to old age, how to tell what stage they are in, and how to deal with them effectively at each stage. When a woman doesn’t understand what’s going on with the men in her life, it is easy to be frustrated, hurt and angry. And to make matters worse, most men don’t understand what is happening for them, so they can’t explain it to the women they love.

    The stages’ names are based on medieval terms:

    • Page: Birth to puberty. “Wannabe Knights”; they want adventure on their (a child’s) scale.
    • Knight: Puberty until late twenties/early thirties. Characterized by a drive for adventure, fun, challenge, passion.
    • Prince: Late twenties/early thirties through 40-45ish. Focus is on who he wants to be in his life, what he wants to accomplish, and goes about bringing that to bear, even at the neglect of his wife and family, even though he says (and truly believes) he is working this hard for their benefit.
    • King: 40+. Kings are confident of who they are. They may not have acquired a lot of material wealth, but they are generous, whether with gifts, time, attention or affection.
    • Elder: Later years, near the end of his life. Not all men become Elders. A man’s life is complete. There is nothing to do but enjoy life, explore what he’s curious about, appreciate his blessings and serve humanity.

    There’s also a “state” — not really a stage — called “The Tunnel” which most of us would label midlife crisis. This occurs during the transition between Prince and King. A man questions what he’s achieved and become, and can be dissatisfied at this point. He can then become withdrawn, difficult, uncommunicative, and a challenge to be around.

    I am not doing these explanations justice, but wanted to give you a flavor of the concepts. She describes each one much better and in more depth, and what women can do to effectively communicate with men who are in the various stages.

    Alison’s belief, as explained through her characters, is that incorporating this information into your behavior with the men around you, transforms your relationship to all men for the better.

    Based on the age of most of my potential suitors, they should be in the “King” stage, but I’ve found many of them to behave like they are in the “Knight” stage — wanting adventure and fun, with no maturity about — or perhaps just not the desire to do — what it takes to be in a relationship. So I don’t think we should hold the age ranges as gospel. I’m wondering if maybe men can revert to a previous stage, based on their life circumstances. So, for example, after a divorce, with their newfound freedom, they are feeling more Knight-like, at least when it comes to relationships. She didn’t address this in the book.

    I found this an interesting read and worth the time.

    (You can buy the eBook for $9.95, or the hard copy online for $15.95, plus shipping. In-stores price: $19.95.)

    I took the 3-hour introduction to the “Celebrating Men, Satisfying Women®” workshops, which is called “Making Sense of Men™” and found some of the concepts instructive. Alison has found a way to organize some of the information many of us know into a useful context and format. I’ll share what I learned in another posting.

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  • The flirt-talk continuum

    I’ve noticed that flirt-talk typically starts out innocently — you share things you like about the other, compliment him/her, tell him/her you think s/he’s cute, sexy or a catch, comment that you’re looking forward to talking/seeing him/her again. In person this is coupled with smiles, laughter, perhaps light touches and other body language to show you like the other. It can progress — in one date or many — to hand holding, arm linking, hugs, kissing, and more.

    However, I’ve noticed that more men than women don’t seem to understand the subtle line between flirting (with perhaps suggestive innuendo) and downright explicit raunchiness. In fact, one guy (“Lessons from a bad date“) began his “flirting” at raunchy.

    Once one is comfortable flirting with the other, seeing a positive response, and feeling it is okay, you can move up the continuum. For many woman, however, this will take a bit of time and trust. In fact, some women (and some men) will never be comfortable either giving or receiving anything beyond initial flirting talk. I think it is critical to be conscious of the other’s reaction and not press if s/he seems uncomfortable.

    In fact, I’ve told men I “didn’t want to go there” when they got too explicit for my comfort level, and they ignored me. They were the ones soon being ignored — by me.

    And of course, neither party may want to go to the far right of the continuum. That’s part of finding out who the other person is and where s/he is comfortable, as well as setting your own boundaries.

    In the interest in helping define, then educate men (and women), I thought I’d take a crack at illustrating a flirt-talk continuum. Granted, DG male readers — at least the ones who comment — are astute enough to already know these distinctions. So perhaps they, as well as our women readers, will help refine this.

    flirt talk

    (Click on the image for a larger view.)

    Here are some definitions to help distinguish the levels:

    Innuendo: an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive one

    Suggestiveness: making someone think of sex and sexual relationships

    Titillating: stimulating or exciting, especially in a sexual way

    Raunchy: earthy, vulgar, and often sexually explicit

    Vulgar: making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions

    What do you think about this continuum? Should there be finer gradations? In a different order? Other words?

    And how do you decide whether or not to go to the next level? What if your date is going to another level faster than you’d prefer?

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  • Forgiveness is key

    eat, pray, loveIn Elizabeth Gilbert’s bestselling book Eat, Pray, Love she describes the year she took off to explore pleasure and devotion. She chose to spend 4 months each in Italy, India and Bali to immerse herself in what each place did best. In Italy she studied Italian and ate (gaining 23 pounds from pasta and pastry). In India she prayed and studied at an ashram. In Bali she focused on balance.

    She had no intention of falling in love along the way. In fact, she’d promised herself she’d be celibate the whole year. But good intentions and promises were seduced away by a loving, sincere man.

    The part that is relevant to DG readers is that she realized she could only be open to the love she unconsciously craved if she forgave herself and her past loves for whatever needed to be forgiven. Throughout much of the book she has recurring upset about her marriage’s painful dissolution, and a subsequent intense love affair. No matter how much she enjoyed herself in Italy, or how much she meditated and prayed in India, the old wounds kept surfacing. Only after a concentrated session of forgiving everyone involved, was she able to become the person that attracted and allowed in a loving, sane, mature man.

    What this illustrates is that if we have bitterness in our heart from any past loves, it will keep others at a distance. By forgiving yourself and them, you allow space for a great one to appear.

    I don’t know what you’re planning to do tonight before you turn out the light, but I’m planning to turn up the volume on my forgiveness practice.

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  • Rules for Responsible Dating

    Wouldn’t it be great if there were rules for responsible dating, just as there are rules for responsible driving? I realize not everyone abides to responsible driving guidelines, but at least some have been publicized so more people do than if nothing had been created.

    So how about we craft some rules for responsible dating? Let me begin, and you can add what I leave out:

    Rules for Responsible Dating

    • You will only date if you are not in a long-term relationship. No dating if you are married or living together, unless you have the explicit permission of your partner.
    • You will only date those with whom you want to explore a long-term relationship, unless you both are explicit about seeking only a casual or intimate encounter.
    • You will be honest about your age, marital status, height, income, body shape, health and other facts about you and your life. If someone misinterprets some key information (you are separated and s/he thinks you are divorced), you will correct the misunderstanding immediately.
    • If you decide you no longer want to see someone, you tell him/her gently, honestly and as soon as you make the decision.
    • You will not make promises you don’t intend to keep (“I’ll call you” or “Yes, I’d like to see you again”). You don’t avoid the person nor not return their calls if you don’t want to see him/her again. You address it maturely and responsibly.
    • When someone says they don’t want to see you again, or they would like to just be friends, you graciously accept that they aren’t a match and let go.
    • You will never, ever, ever, stand up anyone. If you are unexpectedly detained or decide against the meeting you will call the person’s cell phone and/or the meeting site to inform him/her as soon as you realize you won’t make it. The same goes for being more than 5 minutes late — call. The only viable excuse is if your home/office is aflame, you have been kidnapped, or you or a family member has to be taken to the hospital.
    • Before becoming intimate, you initiate a conversation about safe sex, STD tests and protection.

    Okay, now it’s your turn. What shall we add to this list?

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  • “I don’t want to be hurt”

    A man I met online shared this in an early email. His ex-wife cheated on him and he hasn’t dated since his divorce seven years ago. He said it was because he didn’t want to get hurt again.

    riskI explained that nearly all relationships include some hurt at some point. Maybe it happens because of a misunderstanding or unmet expectations. But in all but rare cases there is some kind of hurt, especially in long-term relationships. Heck, hurt can occur with friends, but is more common with romantic situations as the expectations are higher.

    Life — if you live it vigorously — involves risking hurt. When you put yourself out there, from asking for a date, to asking for a plum assignment at work, you put yourself on the line. The stakes are higher the more emotionally involved you are. But if you don’t take the risk to open your heart you’ll also never have the possibility of deep love and connection.

    When I think of risk and dating, I think of athletes. They risk injury every time they train for and play their sport. If they were afraid of injuring themselves, they would never practice nor play. How rewarding would that be?

    So it is with romance. If you aren’t willing to risk getting your heart bruised, you can never find love. And if you’re very lucky, you’ll never experience the pain of heartache. But if you do, know it is part of living and loving with gusto.

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  • “All I seem to attract are players”

    PlayerI discreetly turned to see who made this statement and saw an average-looking, middleaged woman at the table behind me at Starbucks talking to a gal pal about dating. She was wearing a low-cut camisole emphasizing 3 inches of cleavage and black bra straps showing underneath the spaghetti straps.

    I made a snap assessment linking her comment and her cleavage.

    It reminded me of a conversation I had with a gal pal when I was preparing for dating three years ago. I said I was going to invest in some low-cut tops to attract guys. My wise friend said, “If you show too much too soon, you’ll only attract guys who are interested in your cleavage, not you.” In other words sex-obsessed players.

    Somehow this concept escaped the 50ish woman behind me. She wondered why she only attracted players. Might it be that she looked like someone who was interested in attracting sexual offers? I think yes.

    If I get attention in person from men I don’t want to attract, I look at my “advertising” — my attire. Now, I realize some guys will hit on nearly any woman who wears a smile. But if I seem to get a rash of flirts and comments accompanied by leers, I think I’ve dressed a bit more provocatively than optimal.

    Sporting lots of cleavage, bare midriffs and leg are the fashion now. I am by no means a prude, but wonder if by wearing this kind of clothing women are sending signals to men they don’t really want to attract. Not that we should wear always cover up with turtlenecks, long sleeves, and shapeless pants. Ugh!

    Women argue that we ought to be able to wear whatever we want and be liked only for our personality. Yet the women who leave little to the imagination wonder why they mostly attract men who are sexually aggressive, and leave soon after a roll or two in the hay.

    Have you noticed you attract a different kind of man if you show a bit more skin than not? What’s your opinion on this?

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  • Woo-guru tricks

    Readers, you know how low I’ll stoop — I mean, diligent I can be — when it comes to researching dating relationships. Well, I won’t stoop to speed dating, but you know I’ve read bad, but popular books, watched 1950’s marital advice films, listened to dating CDs of dubious value, and dated 77 — soon to be 78 — men. All for you, dear reader. Well, okay, it’s all for me — but I’ve taken you along as my research assistant. Or at least you are the recipient of the lessons I’ve learned.

    School for ScoundrelsSo, with this leave-no-stone-unturned attitude, I decided to see what society was passing off as ways socially challenged men could learn to woo women. So I watched “School for Scoundrels.” Let me save you 94 minutes of your life that you’d never get back.

    I was mildly interested in this film because supposedly it is loosely based on the concepts in the book The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists by Neil Strauss. I’ve not read this book, but have read enough about it to know it is based on a seminar run by a pick-up-artist guru for men with low social skills. (Evidentially, there is another movie in the works based more closely on the book, staring Jack Black and Kate Hudson.)

    It didn’t have the “woman is mean to man at first, then he wins her over” theme we’ve discussed in the past. It was, however, filled with sophomoric scenes. This flick was clearly designed for high-school boys, so to get its PG13 rating it is without nudity, T&A and foul language. Which is possibly the only positive thing about this film.

    The course instructor, “Dr. P,” played by Billy Bob Thorton, drills basic tenets of woman wooing through his “From the bar to your bed” rules:

    • Be dangerous, it’s cool.
    • No compliments, ever.
    • Get the girl alone.
    • Parallel her values
    • Relate to her.
    • Lie, lie, and lie some more.

    The intrepid “hero,” played by Jon Heder of “Napoleon Dynamite” fame, even makes himself flash cards of the above rules which he employs during a first date with the girl of his dreams. Somehow, she’s not incensed, but his ruse endears her to him even more. Ain’t fiction great?

    I wonder how many impressionable boys will take this list to heart. While “relate to her” certainly isn’t a bad habit, it is when it is done insincerely only to manipulate. Interestingly, “No compliments, ever” does reinforce my findings in “Why men don’t tell you you’re pretty.” So since midlife men are employing some of these, clearly these rules have been around for longer than the woo gurus have been teaching.

    So why am I wasting ink (pixels) on this? Because I think some men, even beyond high school and college, think that employing these techniques will get them more horizontal happiness. Perhaps that is true — with women who have the self-esteem or emotional development of high school or college girls. So even though we wouldn’t fall for such scoundrels, it’s good to be armed with knowledge of what some men have learned are acceptable behaviors.

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  • How do you know he’s interested in you?

    According to my blog reports, this is a phrase many people search when finding this blog.

    I only wish I had the answer.

    It is much easier to identify how he shows he’s not interested, as I detailed in “Signs that he won’t be asking for a second date.”

    But knowing he is interested? That’s a whole different story. And one I don’t feel particularly adept at deciphering.

    For example, last week I had a first date with a guy. We’d had a few email exchanges and a nice phone conversation. He seemed engaged during dinner, asking me questions, keeping eye contact and sharing his stories and feelings. We occasionally touched the other’s hands when we talked. We strolled around the shopping area after dinner, but didn’t hold hands.

    At my car he hugged me goodbye and planted a kiss on my lips. There was no talk of a second date, we just said we enjoyed ourselves and went our separate ways. I was ambiguous about seeing him again, but decided to try some recently read advice and try a second date, if he wanted. I wrote him a nice thank you email and suggested we might do another outing.

    He wrote back a nice email telling me he enjoyed meeting me but there was no spark for him and asked if we could be pals.

    So while there were no flashing green lights that he was interested in me, there were no red lights saying he wanted out of there during dinner. And why would you kiss someone on the lips if you had no interest in them? Was it a test to see if I’d play tonsil hockey with him? It was just a quick smack.

    Before I’ve experienced conflicting signals like this, I’d say “Duh. He emails you regularly. He calls you every few days. He says nice things about you. He asks you to do things with him. He talks about doing future things with you. He touches you respectfully. Maybe he kisses you and/or brings you flowers or small gifts.”

    But we know that someone could do all of these things and not want a relationship with you, just a booty call. So how is a gal to know how to interpret these things?

    I wish I knew.

    Any hints you’ve picked up during a first date that are reliable signs a guy is interested?

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  • Are you in agreement that you’re dating each other?

    heart question markI’d recently read that a man can go out with a woman 2-5 times (or more) before he considers them dating. A woman often leaps to that conclusion on the second date. (A male friend even suggested that some of us consider we’re “dating” a guy we haven’t met yet, only talked to by email or phone!)

    I realize there are some circumstances where it could be nebulous. Perhaps you are workmates, gym mates, or classmates and you invite each other for coffee, a hike, a movie, or over to your house for dinner. Maybe you either go Dutch or take turns treating. Or one picks up the movie and the other dinner. Even if you are physical, like cuddling during a movie, unless there’s some smooching, it still can be nebulous. And sometimes even making out isn’t a sign that you’re dating.

    In “What is the definition of a date?” I shared my confusion about what constitutes a date.

    After dating a man a handful of times, with plenty of smooching, I made some reference to “our relationship.” He adamantly corrected me that we weren’t in a “relationship.” I asked what he called what we were in then. He said we were “hanging out,” and “seeing each other.” I don’t know when “seeing each other” becomes “a relationship” — at least in that guy’s mind. I’m guessing it has to do with deciding to be exclusive. Interestingly, we “saw each other” for 6 weeks before he told me in an IM that we shouldn’t see each other again. I guess that if we were “in a relationship” I might have earned a breakup email instead.

    Some people have told me that meeting for coffee with someone from a dating site isn’t a date. It’s a “meet” to see if you want to have a date. I could argue both sides. Fundamentally, to me a date is when you spend time with someone to explore if there is romantic potential.

    Because of this ambiguousness, I’m told that some men don’t get into “date” mode until the second, third or more encounter. Because he hasn’t decided to woo you, he sees no need to call regularly, dress nicely, or show other signs that he’s interested in you. He’s in “I like her, but not sure I’m that interested in her” mode. So if you think “second dates and beyond mean we’re dating and he needs to woo me with calls, flowers, etc.” you’re setting yourself up for frustration. If you get on his case about not calling, he’ll be out of there in a flash if he doesn’t realize you’re in different places. If he sees he needs to step up his romance or lose you, he will, if he’s interested. Otherwise, he may have the “let’s be friends” talk.

    At what point do you consider yourself “dating” a guy?

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  • Do his fingers hold clues to his behavior?

    handHold your hands in front of you. Notice if your ring finger is longer than your index (pointing) finger. Are they the same size? If so, or if your ring finger is shorter, you’re a typical woman. If the ring finger is longer, you’re atypical.

    Ask your next date to do this test. The size of a man’s, er, digits, may tell you a lot.

    “Who cares? you say. “Is this a silly parlor game?”

    In a “Salon” article called “Cupid’s Science,” reporter Rebecca Traister interviewed Chemistry.com creator, anthropologist Helen Fisher, Ph.D. Dr. Fisher is also the author of Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love and Anatomy of Love: The Natural History of Mating, Marriage, and Why We Stray. In a discussion about the site’s profile assessment and one unusual question, she divulged a little-known fact: your fingers can speak volumes.

    No, not just that one digit you raise in anger.

    But your index and ring fingers. At least their ratio to each other’s length.

    Dr. Fisher explains that “digit ratio” is related to the estrogen/testosterone ratio that begins before birth. “In the womb, the brain is washed over by estrogen and testosterone. If you have a lot more testosterone than estrogen in the womb, it is going to build a longer fourth finger than second finger. If you’ve got a lot more estrogen in the womb, the pointer finger will be longer.

    “There are three testosterone bursts: one in the womb, one in infancy and a giant spurt in puberty. But if you have more testosterone in the womb and you have a longer fourth finger, you’re more likely to have musical ability, mathematical abilities, to be an engineer or architect or good at computer programming. You tend to have poorer social skills but be direct, decisive, ambitious, competitive. What they call ‘extreme male brain’ is when you’re overly flooded with testosterone and are pushed into the autistic spectrum. And football players are very high on testosterone and estrogen. So you can be high in both.

    “[If you have more estrogen, you usually] have good verbal skills, can find the right word rapidly, are good at remembering, better at compassion, nurturing, patience, have good people skills, and are better at reading posture, gesture, tone of voice and facial features.”

    Now I’m not here to argue if male/female stereotypes are, in fact, based on science, or that one can be decisive, direct, competitive and ambitious even with a puny ring finger. These are mostly skills that can be learned, just as can compassion, memory, verbal and people skills. She’s talking about natural inclinations, not learned skills here.

    So experiment with this one. Notice the finger ratio on your next date. Then see he fits Dr. Fisher’s findings or if he has great people skills despite his handicap of a longer ring finger. Report back to us what you find.

    (BTW, my ring finger is slightly longer.)

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